Lesson 5: Unwomb the World

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Lesson 5: Unwomb the World

Post by Admin on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:00 pm

Please read the following excerpt from the Tilt-a-Whirl and respond...do you agree or disagree with this statement, and why or why not?

"True atheism is nonsense. If there is such a thing as beautiful, such a thing as good, or even such a thing as bad, then there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which. An atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be. Tell us what is, by all means. But without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be."

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Re: Lesson 5: Unwomb the World

Post by Maddie Uccello on Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:09 pm

Admin wrote:Please read the following excerpt from the Tilt-a-Whirl and respond...do you agree or disagree with this statement, and why or why not?

"True atheism is nonsense.  If there is such a thing as beautiful, such a thing as good, or even such a thing as bad, then there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which. An atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be.  Tell us what is, by all means. But without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be."

I agree with this statement because, atheism cannot know the reason why they would affirm a certain moral true without going into the specifics of the existence of a God. They can only prefer one thing over another with morality. Very Happy

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Re: Lesson 5: Unwomb the World

Post by Isabelleagarcia47 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:34 pm

Admin wrote:Please read the following excerpt from the Tilt-a-Whirl and respond...do you agree or disagree with this statement, and why or why not?

"True atheism is nonsense.  If there is such a thing as beautiful, such a thing as good, or even such a thing as bad, then there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which. An atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be.  Tell us what is, by all means. But without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be."


Okay, so for me to fully understand what this guy was saying I really had to break down the quote. I would like to start with the first sentence, "True atheism is nonsense." I agree with this. Atheism in it's truest form is in fact just bunch of mumbo jumbo. So the beginning of this quote is true. The following sentence is where he begins to back up his claim. He states that "there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which." An atheist has no moral standards. He has no authority. Those are two things that help to "determine which is which." Following his next statement "an atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be." Again an atheist has no absolute authority therefore has no absolute moral standard to follow therefore he cannot properly "determine" what ought to be. So to finally answer Mrs. Martins quote I would say yes I agree with this statement because for atheism to make sense you must have a set of moral standards with an absolute authority.
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My response ta da quhessn

Post by Redneck_philosopher on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:12 am

Admin wrote:Please read the following excerpt from the Tilt-a-Whirl and respond...do you agree or disagree with this statement, and why or why not?

"True atheism is nonsense.  If there is such a thing as beautiful, such a thing as good, or even such a thing as bad, then there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which. An atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be.  Tell us what is, by all means. But without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be."

So, as confusing and unnecessarily puny and long winded as this guy is, this statement actually made his point for once. He starts out by saying atheism in its pure form can only be nonsense, because it has no rules that are based in something higher than itself. That is what needs to happen if you wish to follow or have a moral code with some ground and depth. And the only true one is the laws and commands God sets out for us. And since they (atheists) reject all notions of a God, therefore they reject the notions and ideas of his laws. They then cannot say they have a higher moral code, because it is based on themselves. No more perfect and no more flawed than the men who created it. Meaning eventually, it crumbles and is gone. While God lasts, and goes on. Its just our choice to expect the eternal, or the brief and flawed laws that men create. I hope that made sense! You all know my stance on this guy, but I am trying to make the best of it Very Happy

P.s. Because of that last paragraph, I agree with this statement Very Happy

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Re: Lesson 5: Unwomb the World

Post by Evan_T on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:26 am

Admin wrote:Please read the following excerpt from the Tilt-a-Whirl and respond...do you agree or disagree with this statement, and why or why not?

"True atheism is nonsense.  If there is such a thing as beautiful, such a thing as good, or even such a thing as bad, then there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which. An atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be.  Tell us what is, by all means. But without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be."

Wow, this is very similar to Kant's ethical argument. I agree with the statement that atheism abolishes grounds for right and wrong. However, the first sentence in this excerpt is just an opinion. From the Christian's perspective, sure, atheism is nonsense, but from the atheist's perspective, everything might as well be nonsense, including the idea of God.

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Re: Lesson 5: Unwomb the World

Post by Evan_T on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:30 am

Maddie Uccello wrote:
Admin wrote:Please read the following excerpt from the Tilt-a-Whirl and respond...do you agree or disagree with this statement, and why or why not?

"True atheism is nonsense.  If there is such a thing as beautiful, such a thing as good, or even such a thing as bad, then there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which. An atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be.  Tell us what is, by all means. But without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be."

I agree with this statement because, atheism cannot know the reason why they would affirm a certain moral true without going into the specifics of the existence of a God. They can only prefer one thing over another with morality. Very Happy

Atheists can say that one thing produces better results than the next, though, and therefore justify morality. For example, often the existence of charities improve living conditions and general happiness for everyone (an increase in positive chemical reactions in the brain), and therefore charities are a good thing. However, they still lack a universal base to stand morality upon, because "good" and "positive" are still the subjective experience of individual units of life.

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egrabrick's response

Post by egrabrick on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:48 am

Admin wrote:Please read the following excerpt from the Tilt-a-Whirl and respond...do you agree or disagree with this statement, and why or why not?

"True atheism is nonsense.  If there is such a thing as beautiful, such a thing as good, or even such a thing as bad, then there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which. An atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be.  Tell us what is, by all means. But without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be."

Since I know God, and I know that there is such a thing as good and such a thing as evil, I would agree with the statement. Without God, there is no right and wrong. I think even an atheist would agree with the last three sentences for the most part. I don't think atheists would say there is anything that should be, everything that is simply is, and there is no universal goal for anyone. With atheism, everyone determines their own standards of right and wrong, and also decides individually what their goal in life is, if they have one. Atheists have no universal goals or standards, everything comes down to the individual.

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Re: Lesson 5: Unwomb the World

Post by LivsTanski on Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:57 pm

Admin wrote:Please read the following excerpt from the Tilt-a-Whirl and respond...do you agree or disagree with this statement, and why or why not?

"True atheism is nonsense.  If there is such a thing as beautiful, such a thing as good, or even such a thing as bad, then there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which. An atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be.  Tell us what is, by all means. But without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be."

Before answering I would like to define Atheism. Google defines it as "A disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods." This definition says NOTHING about beauty, good or a transcendent standard. I realize that these things come from God, so when a person claims he does not exist these things cease to exist as well. This is where the gaping hole in atheism surfaces. They do not offer an alternative source for these things, so in part, I agree with Nate's statement that "Without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be". I disagree with him simply because I dislike him and his arrogant tone.... I desperately need to get over this bias lolololol!!
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Re: Lesson 5: Unwomb the World

Post by LivsTanski on Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:01 am

Evan_T wrote:
Maddie Uccello wrote:
Admin wrote:Please read the following excerpt from the Tilt-a-Whirl and respond...do you agree or disagree with this statement, and why or why not?

"True atheism is nonsense.  If there is such a thing as beautiful, such a thing as good, or even such a thing as bad, then there is a transcendent standard which determines which is which. An atheist can say that a society prefers mothers to murderers, but he cannot say that this is as it should be.  Tell us what is, by all means. But without God, you cannot tell us what ought to be."

I agree with this statement because atheism cannot know the reason why they would affirm a certain moral true without going into the specifics of the existence of a God. They can only prefer one thing over another with morality. Very Happy

Atheists can say that one thing produces better results than the next, though, and therefore justify morality. For example, often the existence of charities improve living conditions and general happiness for everyone (an increase in positive chemical reactions in the brain), and therefore charities are a good thing. However, they still lack a universal base to stand morality upon, because "good" and "positive" are still the subjective experience of individual units of life.

Hey Evan! I agree with most of what you are saying, but would you agree that their ideal that "One thing produces better results than the next, though, and therefore justify morality." Is that not their universal basis to stand morality upon? We as Christians know that such a statement is not correct, but in their minds, isn't that their universal basis?
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Re: Lesson 5: Unwomb the World

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